Belfast, Northern Ireland 2012
3/30 Discussion Questions
- There is a comparison to be made between the revolutionary language of blacks in America and the Irish in Ireland. Why is it that the Irish were so soft-spoken in comparison to the Black Panthers of America?
- Is Heaney’s comparison of Irish killings to black lynchings in America justified? What are the main similarities and differences between the two?
Discussion 3/30
My question has to do with the uses of African American music and poems in Irish protests. We saw a clip of the song “We Shall Overcome” being sung by both African American and Irish protesting crowds, and there is also the parallel between the song “Strange Fruit” and Heaney’s poem “Strange Fruit”. My question is, are the two situations analogous? Is it acceptable to use the same songs and same meanings for Irish protests, or is there something that makes the situation different? Is it a show of solidarity, or a misuse of something almost sacred?
3/30 Discussion Qs
How does the line from Punishment “My poor scapegoat, I almost love you” shift the tone of the poem? What is the significance the possessive pronoun here? Does it convey understanding or power?
In Stephen O’Neill’s presentation he talks about the influence The Troubles had on works of literature and art at that time, stating, “Even where writer would’ve maybe not wanted to represent anything about The Troubles at all, the conflict deeply impacts them and is generally always present”. How does this statement draw comparisons between Irish and African American writers and works we have read so far?
Discussion Questions (3/30)
- Why is “Northern Ireland” a contentious term?
- I know someone else has asked this already, but what is the effect of depicting women in Heaney’s poetry?
- Does the civil rights push of Irish Catholics follow a similar path to the African-American civil rights movement of starting with non-violence (for the most part) and moving toward more militant measures? Or are the non-violent and violent approaches more simultaneous?
3/31 Discussion Questions
How did the presence of the Irish language fluctuate, in schools and in daily/social life fluctuate throughout more recent Irish history (post revival)?
I’m curious about the Bog bodies/ poems and hope we can talk more about them in class. Is there a connection between the idea ritualized killings and premeditated political violence? Was it a fascination with the victim status of the people? Do bodies on display as history and science loose their personhood? Is there any connection with the extremely preserved state of the bodies and the narratives of preservation we were discussing last class?
The last stanza of Punishment is really interesting, especially in how it contains the dichotomy of the civilized and the tribal. I’m trying to read how they are being used. Who is the civilized? Who is the tribal? Even when being used to make a point, does this narrative still promote othering and the idea of the “never ready” as the tribal element?
3/30 Discussion Questions
Heaney’s poems center around the punishment and suffering of women. Why women? Did The Troubles affect men differently than women? How would the poems change if they instead focused on men?
In the song adaptation of Strange Fruit, the singer refers to black bodies hanging from trees. The majority of those hanged were black males. Did anyone else see the black bodies it was referring to as males? How did this affect your reading? If Heaney’s other poems were rewritten and situated within the context of black America, would they focus on men or women?
“The central paradox of the process is that on the one hand, if society is to move forward, then it may be necessary to leave bitter experiences from the past behind. At the same time, many argue that if past hurts are not dealt with then they can provide the seeds for future conflict” (Fitzduff and O’Hagan) Which way do you think is better in order to move forward? What does all of the literature that we have read so far this semester seem to say about it? Is there a way to do both at the same time?
3/31 Discussion Questions
- Does Heaney’s mention of the blackness of the body in “Punishment” motion towards his own experiences with black struggles in America, primarily in his time at Berkeley in “Views,” or is detail purely superficial?
- In regards to last week’s discussion of religion in Hurston’s writing, do Heaney’s works have similar subtext regarding religion, especially as an Irish Catholic who migrated from the North to the South?
- How do the PSNI’s efforts to solve murders from the Troubles and heal the deep wounds of the conflict echo efforts in America to make amends for racial and ethnic discrimination through programs such as affirmative action and reparations?
- How do Irish citizens’ hesitations to either move on from the painful past or focus on past issues and solve them harken back to the tension of the Harlem Renaissance, in which creators tried to move past or reclaim former traumatic experience by means of their art?
Questions for Week 11: the troubles
I’ve drawn some questions about the material that might help the discussion tomorrow. These include:
1. How useful are the analogies and comparisons with African-Americans and Catholics in the north of Ireland?
2. What kind of different perspectives does studying the Irish and American Civil Rights Movements alongside each other add?
3. Is Seamus Heaney’s criticism of Berndaette Devlin and the Black Panthers fair? What does it say about the limitations of these comparisons?
4. How ethical is Heaney’s approach to representing the troubles? Do some of the depictions of victimhood, particularly its gendered aspects, unsettle you?
5. Is Ciaran Carson’s reading of the poems, posted below, fair?
‘It is as if he is saying suffering like this is natural; these things have always happened; they happened then, they happen now, and that is sufficient ground for understanding and absolution. It is as if there never were and never will be any political consequences of such acts’.
Ciaran Carson, ‘Escaped from the Massacre?’, Honest Ulsterman 50 (1975)
Christianity in Literature
I was thinking about my initial reading of John Redding Goes to Sea and how I saw John as a Christ figure. When reading, the description of John Redding’s body floating in the water stood out to me as reflecting the death of Jesus because of the positioning of his body, his torn clothes, and his blood mixing in with the water. In our discussion on Wednesday, I couldn’t come up with a reason for why I picked out this image and asked a question regarding Christianity and Biblical references. I think part of the reason is that I have been trained in past classes to look for the Christ figure while reading, since it has been brought up in so many discussions I have had before. During my freshman year of high school, Simon from Lord of the Flies was identified as a Christ figure. Same with Santiago from Old Man and The Sea my sophomore year and Jim Casy from Grapes of Wrath my junior year of high school. Just a few weeks ago in my American Lit class, one of my classmates brought up the question of whether Benjy from The Sound and the Fury could be seen as a Christ figure. Christ figures have popped up everywhere for me in my past English classes, which is why it is something I look for when reading.
There’s a danger, I think, that comes with searching for Christ figures in literature. They are usually the character in the story that makes sacrifices, is good with children, and/or experiences physical suffering. By assigning these characters the title of the Christ figure, readers accentuate the importance and power of the character’s sacrifices and morality. The issue with this – it excludes characters in literature who are women, and it excludes non-Christian readers, or those who have no exposure to the Christian religion, from a full reading of the text and the author’s intention in the crafting of a character.
Turning to Zora Neale Hurston, we discussed on Monday the lack of reverence for religion in Mules and Men. This can be seen in stories like the tale of why the church split, as Charlie explains that Christ glued together eleven rocks to build his church on. Hurston’s folklore involved a satire of Christianity as the religion of colonialism, which was imposed on African Americans who were deemed “never ready” to accept religion. Taking this point from our Mules and Men discussion, I identified John Redding as a possible Christ figure in Wednesday’s reading due to the heavy influence religion, or the critique and satire of it, had in other works of Hurston’s. Christianity plays an important role in the history and folklore that Hurston is attempting to preserve and share through her writing.
So, I guess the question I am asking of myself and others here is what is the danger of automatically identifying good male characters as Christ figures in literature? How can we reconcile this with the intention of authors and the influence Christianity has on so many works of literature? I know this is a lot broader than the specific readings we discussed this week, but the question of why so many of us posed questions about Christianity really stuck with me. Why do we (I) instinctively read this way?