MFA Creative Writing

In this next installment of the Alumni Interview Series, I caught up with Jeanne De Vita (2000) and talked to her about her time since the MFA, researching books, and some of her current projects.

1) First and foremost, how did you go about deciding you wanted to become a writer?
I’ve loved writing since I was seven years old. I wrote a short story using our spelling words for a second grade project. The paper was cut into the shape of Santa Claus and the beard was lined so we could also practice penmanship. I brought the Santa home and I remember my mom crying at what I wrote. It was then that I realized the power of putting my ideas out there for people. I was (am) a really shy kid, and writing allowed me to be bold, powerful, and exposed in a way I could not have done verbally. I am a better speaker now and I no longer write on Santa-shaped paper, but since I was seven years old, writing has been a vital form of expression for me.

2) Did you have any mentors along the way who really affected your approach to craft?
Absolutely–several.

One of my undergraduate professors, Christiana Langenberg, at Iowa State University taught me that getting it out of you and onto the paper is the most critical step in the creative process. It sounds basic, but you have to trust yourself and WRITE. Shutting down the internal editor, shutting out the external noise–those are probably two of the biggest obstacles to writing.

William O’Rourke gave me the most painful but powerful feedback of my career. His words have stayed with me daily–truly. I have edited more than 50 books and I find myself hearing William’s comments to me in my own feedback to authors. I’ll summarize it, probably very poorly, but William in effect taught me that you can write the most glorious prose but if your reader can’t follow the story, it’s essentially shite. I’m sure he never said *shite* but he did teach me that my work needs to be timely, original, but yet still consumable. I really hated hearing that a decade ago, but the man knows what he teaches. Writing that is exclusively personal is journal–there is a craft to creating original, publishable work. So speaking to craft, you need to always remember you’re writing for a reader–not just for yourself.

I believe William also tried to teach us the value of trends in publishing. I really bucked at that back when I was in the program. I think I heard him at the time in a very narrow way, and I rejected the notion that true creativity could be externally motivated. Like, oh, vampire books are selling, I’m going to write one. With time and experience in the industry, I see his wisdom played out now every day.  If you want to write brilliance and keep it in a drawer, you can ignore all the rules of publishing.  But I think what William was trying to teach us is if you want to be a working writer, you need to participate in trends, create trends.  Be timely, relevant. Not a follower–followers always fail.  (Not another vampire book!) You can write brilliant and beautiful work and it may never see the light of day. And that’s fine if that’s your goal.  But if you want to participate in the business of writing, you need to not only write, you need to be a student of the market and society. It’s actually freeing when you look at it a certain way, but back when I was a student, I just didn’t appreciate what William was saying.

So thank you, William, for those invaluable lessons that have been reinforced for me countless times/ways in my work post-ND.

3) What’s your fondest memory of your MFA years at Notre Dame?
I have so many. In fact, I would go back tomorrow if they’d let me do it again! The workshops–the community of my peers and the fun/terror of workshopping. Teaching–I was lucky enough to be allowed to teach in the First Year Writing program while I was in the MFA program. I passionately love teaching and learning how to teach from a place like ND, encountering students like those in the undergrad First Year program–preparing for those classes and teaching them are some of the most formative experiences I have had and are some of my most treasured memories. Again, can I come back?  Pretty please?

4) What are you doing for a living now? 
I edit, write, and take on contract work to bring in a few extra pennies.

5) What kind of writing projects are you working on now? How are they going?
I live for my writing projects. I spend the majority of my time editing but working on my own writing is like coming home. Since graduating from ND, I’ve come out as a lesbian so most of my work has a GLBTQ theme. Most of my writing will be published under my pen name, Annie Anthony. Since I work for a publisher, I want some separation between me the publisher/editor and me the writer. Right now, I’m working on a book that is under contract called Bullseye. It’s a lesbian novel that has a 3-book series potential.  It’s a love story that has cancer, nature, and dogs as central themes. I’m also working on a novel–historical fiction that takes place in a 1920’s Harlem.  The research I’ve done for that book–the clothing, the vernacular dialogue, the food.  It’s been a true labor of love. I’m working on a fantasy/sci-fi piece that is really under my skin. I’ve also got several pieces of lesbian erotica nearly done.  I dabble in poetry and have a couple of poems out to literary journals now. The great thing about being a writer right now is there are so many ways to connect. I use Pinterest as an idea board and it’s public, so my readers or fellow writers can check out the idea board for almost everything that I’m working on. I have a blog for my pen name that I use as a springboard a lot.

And the writing is going really well. I think editing has made me a far better writer. I encourage anyone who wants to seriously publish fiction to get into a group and beta read, edit. If you can, hook up with a working mentor and learn how to critically read. My publishing company focuses primarily on genre fiction but we have a literary imprint. Our acquiring editors and senior staff are all highly educated and experienced. We see genre fiction as conforming to certain norms, but by no means do we sacrifice the quality of the final product. Many indie publishers need unpaid interns–not just undergrads, but all ages–so take on whatever experience you can to learn about craft.  Doing that has absolutely helped me write not just that personal chaos that William saw in workshop, but work that I hope brings my stories to readers in a clear and meaningful way.

6) Can you talk a bit about your research process? Do you do research for a lot of your work or just this one? One thing I’ve always wondered about is doing research when you don’t have a humongous library or access to things like JSTOR. How do you manage some of those obstacles?
I am sure it varies for each author, but for me, I like to research in two ways: 1) physically being present in a place if the location is significant and 2) examining what I will call ‘significant sources.’

Being physically present: if I’m writing and a critical location is a diner, it helps to physically go to different diners at different times of day in different cities–small towns, etc.  Eat the specials, drink the iced tea, watch the staff clean the tables around you. I think an imaginative person can capture the truth of places in a way that is far bigger than just capturing fact.  For me, that is an essential quality in good writing: truth versus fact.

Good writing requires facts and specific details that are also absolutely objectively verifiable and real.  The author may wow a reader with emotion and truth, but they will hook the reader with detail.

I always get frustrated when authors submit books to me at the publishing company which clearly convey they have not done their research. Nothing can redeem an invalid story and no story is less valid than one that reveals the author’s inaccuracies or errors.

So back to your question and part two of my answer: significant sources.

In my writing now, I already have the “truth” of the story formed. I would never be inspired to write a piece outside of that essential truth, I don’t think… but to make the story fit into the historical time period where I believe it belongs, I need research.  I was not alive in the 1920’s and I need to make sure that what the characters wear, drink, their diction, what products they had and did not have (for example, you might be surprised how late clothing had zippers!!) are all correct.

To obtain this research, I always start with fiction and movies created in and near the time period of my interest. I buy used books from Amazon and from Goodwill stores– I bend and abuse my library card.  The internet is a brilliant tool for authors–we can find blogs, pictures, stories on just about any subject.  I have used eBay in my research as well.  Sometimes just looking for the clothing of a time period can contribute volumes to the research. I also try, when I can, to visit flea markets or antique stores that I think might have items from the time period of my interest.  I have found that collectors are generally avid historians and they are generous with their information and time. All research–even anecdotal–has its place–even if all it does is help create the mindspace for me where the work can flow.

Research informs the reality of the book, but does not create its truth.  And that is what is so inspiring and amazing about writing in general.  Look at The Great Gatsby.  The story–the essential truths of that book are absolutely timeless, correct? But the details, the circumstance, the mannerisms, the dress, even the location–are critically placed for Fitzgerald’s truth. Can any author at any time write a timeless, true story and set it in the setting, time, space that is most viable for that author? I think so and that possibility is exhilarating.

And of course, the absolute best research any author can do is to read.  Books in the genre, books from the time period, books from the country or place. After all, there is no greater education for a writer than the books themselves, I think.

7) Do you have any secret for getting writing done out “in the real world”?
Absolutely. Just do it. Honestly, I have written notes on a train, while stopped in traffic. Just get it down on paper. That’s the first step. Editing and revising come later but all the trite inspirational quotes aren’t wrong–the journey of a thousand steps, etc. etc. Day job? Five kids? Sick? It’s OK. Just write a few words. Then a few more. Don’t stop.

Also, practice craft. All those rules do apply if you really want to get published. Show, don’t tell.  Research your market. Write an effective synopsis and query letter. Revise, revise, revise. Grammar and punctuation matter. Be polite. Good manners.

Also, this is not a secret, but connecting with people really helps. If you know a published writer, ask about their publisher. If you belong to a critique group, ask about agents. It’s not networking for networking’s sake but being part of a community can help get your work to the right publisher. And with our current publishing models, authors who don’t self-promote might never make a dime. So connecting with readers can be a critical part of a new author’s success.

8) Is there one piece of advice you wish you had heard when you were starting out?
Yes. As much as I had certain positive feedback and encouragement, I wish someone had told me to NEVER EVER give up. To NEVER lose faith and to keep writing and studying craft. The publishing market is so vast and the need for good work is so huge. When I first submitted my work to a publisher, I was absolutely terrified of rejection. Of embarrassment. Of not being good enough. Well, guess what? I was good enough. We all are—there is room for all of us at this table. If I had believed in myself more profoundly a decade ago, I might have had a different career.  I have no regrets, this was my path, but anyone who really wants to publish and write just has to find his/her voice, perfect the craft, and then find that right niche.

Cheers,
Dev

In this next installment of our Alumni Interview Series, I got the chance to talk to Christina Yu (2008). We discussed her development as a writer and her thoughts on balancing professional and creative ambitions.

Christina Yu (2008) is a Marketing Manager at Knewton, a global leader in adaptive learning technology. Yu has fiction published or forthcoming in New Letters, Fence, Gargoyle, Indiana Review, Chicago Quarterly Review, New Delta Review, Painted Bride Quarterly, 34th Parallel Magazine, and the anthology Robert Olen Butler Prize Stories. Her fiction has been nominated and cited for several Best American anthologies. She is currently a part-time MBA candidate at the NYU School of Business and is specializing in Marketing, Strategy, Media Entertainment & Technology.

1) Why did you want to become a writer? What’s the story behind your storytelling desire?
I’ve wanted to write for as long as I can remember. I don’t really have anything special to say about it. I just enjoy putting words together. It doesn’t have to be fancy words for a fancy purpose–I like writing letters, blog posts, copy for a website, articles, essays, and stories of course. I just loved being an English major in college–writing essay after essay after essay. Those were some of the best days of my life. I get lost in the act of making sentences, and I like thinking about people and what makes them tick. That’s all there is to it.

When I was younger, I probably had more ego wrapped up in it. And loftier, more pretentious ideas around writing. Now that I support myself, in part, by writing, I have a much more professional attitude (which I think is better).

Of course, though, I think it’s important to maintain some of the romantic, emotional feelings around the craft. Once when I was in college, a famous writer (forget the name) came to visit and said: “I write to make people fall in love with me. I write to prove I am special.”

That made complete sense to me back then. I think a healthy dose of both mentalities is about right–the professional-9-5-no-ego-writing-mentality and the romantic, sexy one.

2) Along the way, have there been people who’ve helped you form your writerly identity?

English teachers in high school and of course my favorite professors in college and grad school. I had one prof who told me I was a “Romantic” with a capital R. That completely changed my life. From that day forward, I felt like I knew who I was. From that day forward, I did everything with a certain code or spirit in mind.

You know, it is sad but I don’t think I fully appreciated the MFA program while I was there. I miss workshop now, of course. The time there was precious. There were so many exquisite afternoons–of writing and playing DDR and board games. It was a very special time.

3) Are you working on any big creative projects right now? If so, what’s your elevator pitch on any one of them?
I do have several book-length projects complete or nearly complete, but my policy is to never talk about a project. It’s fun, but it feels like cheating. It’s too easy.

4) What are you doing for a living? Do you find yourself wearing multiple hats each day?

I work as a marketing manager at a tech company in New York. It’s an unbelievable opportunity. The people are brilliant, the technology is mind-blowing, the social mission excites me on even the toughest days, the business opportunity is once-in-a-lifetime, etc. The culture of the company is also quite special. Everyone is charming and irreverent.

I do find myself wearing multiple hats, and I thrive on it. My life right now demands everything that I have. Each day is a cognitive work-out, and I go to sleep exhausted. I work, write, read, study econ and stats, attend industry gatherings. Basically, I’m not satisfied each day unless I wear myself out.

I’m also doing a part-time MBA right now and specializing in Marketing, Strategy, Media & Entertainment, so my life is REALLY crazy. I was actually a bit nervous before I started this, but then thought to myself, “Sheryl Sandberg says women over-plan, and that you shouldn’t think too much. Just do it.” Plus, I’m interested in stories about overreachers. It helps to be in an atmosphere that is charged with ambition, urgency and striving.

5) How do you balance your creative life with your professional one? Are the two separate in your mind or do they permeate each other?

They definitely permeate each other. I love the pace of New York, the “mad and willful humanity” here. It really suits my temperament. I could go on and on about this forever. But ultimately, I think it’s important to know what works for you, if you’re a creative person. Some people prefer isolation and long stretches of quiet. Some need constant stimulation and excitement. Everyone has different needs and a different trajectory. Me, I’ve always loved Flaubert’s quote: “Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work.” I do things in a very methodical and comprehensive way. I like models and frameworks and algorithms and a certain analytical rigor in my life. The creative spontaneous stuff cuts through that and gives things an interesting texture.

Basically, I want to live a paradox. I like being on the edge between art and business. I think it creates a productive tension. Sometimes I approach art the way you would approach business (with personal output quotas, processes, strategic thinking, frameworks for analysis) and business the way you would art (intuitively, with a design-and-metaphoric sensibility). Of course I understand the limits of this approach as well.

6) Finally, what advice do you have for aspiring writers?
“Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work”–Flaubert

Cheers,

Dev

In this next installment of the Alumni Interview Series, we got the chance to catch up with Campbell Irving (2004). He gave us insight into how a busy lawyer with a family can still get creative work done.  

1. When did you know that literature was something you could love all your life?
That is an excellent question, primarily because it stumps me. I wish I had some epiphany, some “pick up and read” moment a la St. Augustine wherein my eyes were opened. But sadly that’s not there. I loved stories as a kid. Loved them. Read as much as I could and then I stopped. I hit 12 or so and I stopped. I was a “Cliff’s Notes” student throughout high school and then when I got to college, to Notre Dame, I decided majoring in English made sense because I had this utterly ant-climatic vision of attending law school, so that’s what I did. And when you’ve denied yourself the joy of reading, the joy of literature, out of sheer ignorance or laziness for a while, and then you have these incredible teachers at your disposal, it does slowly trigger something in you. I’m a Southerner, so I began reading William Faulkner and wouldn’t stop reading him throughout my college summers. If I could pick a time when enjoyment turned to love, though, I would have to say the second time I read Jean Toomer’s Cane. First time was a skim for class. Second time was in the summer, after roofing all day, and then with nothing else to do, actually reading that book. That book is something every literate person should read.

2. Give us your fondest memory of your MFA years at Notre Dame.
There are quite a few. I had a radio show during my MFA years at WVFI. It was actually resurrected from my undergraduate days when the incredibly talented Kara Zuaro and I co-hosted. During the MFA, it was the incredibly talented Angela Hur and myself. The take away there is that in both instances I had a great time and in both instances I was the slow one on the program. One time during the MFA years, we performed a radio play written by Kevin Ducey with a number of other MFAers (Corey Madsen and Kelly Kerney, I believe were both involved). To perform anything “written by Kevin Ducey” is an honor, but that was tremendously fun. Great as that was, though, I think the ultimate highlight was a reception hosted by the Program and the Irish Studies department where I got to share a glass(es) of whiskey with Seamus Heaney. That was an event that ekes its way up the Kid #1 birth-Kid #2 birth-wedding line. Rarefied air. He was purely one of the truly kindest and most humble people I think I’ve ever met. Treated me like a prince, and truth be told, compared to many of the other MFA writers in my group, I was nothing special. Incredible night.

3. Can you describe your motivations for pursuing a career in law after the MFA?
Another excellent question with another humdrum answer. Law school was something I always wanted to pursue. It made sense to me to do it, even at a young age. My vision was just to go to college and then law school, work and then die. The problem was I happened upon Valerie Sayers and a number of other writers as an undergrad that inspired me to pursue the MFA while I still could. While I was still young and writing and literature were fresh to me, and they could enjoy the prominent place in my life that they deserved. So, I got very lucky and was accepted at Notre Dame where I cannot effectively describe what an incredible time I had. Ironically, the MFA inspired me to (eventually) return to my plan of attending law school. Law school, and I can say this now with a least some distance from it, does make you a better technical writer. That was one motivation. The MFA, for me, made me a more mature writer, but I was still in a theoretical world where you have just tons of leg room to really explore language and voice and narrative and all of that wonderful stuff. I was not a good technical writer, however, unlike many of the other MFA students. I was too lost in my own world to really become better at that part of it. But, law school did help me improve. How much, I don’t know. There was a lot of ground to make up for. But at least I had/ have the confidence to say that I did improve. The other motivation for law school was that it was a way for me to make a living, raise my family, and when the time presented itself, write. Throughout law school, and even now that I’m actually practicing, I would read up on these great writers who had other careers that were at least somewhat disengaged from literature. But I must say I very much enjoy what I do in my 9-to-5 (or 8-to-8, but who’s counting). It is very, very different from writing, but good different.

4. Were there specific skills that you picked up in the MFA Program that lead to your success as a lawyer?
Absolutely. The ability to think creatively is critical. People sometimes think the life of a lawyer is either very thrilling and sexy, like you see on television, or very dull and rote. In my limited experience, neither is exactly true. However, you do need passion for it (like in the television shows) and you need to be organized. I am better at the former, to be very honest. But you also have to be creative. The answers to questions aren’t always simple. You can’t always plug in a law or legal case to explain something, and you can’t simply argue emphatically without some backup. When the answer is hard to determine, you have to be able to dissect what’s in front of you, imagine it going in various directions, and then see how an answer or an assumption deals with those directions. The intellectual and creative processes are very similar to what I try to do when writing a story. I think that’s why I enjoy it. So, you have thinking creatively, but also the ability to really dissect language and break it down to its base elements. This latter skill is something that, for me, does not come naturally, but was learned through editing my work during the MFA Program, as well as reading others’ works. The other skill, and I’m not sure this is technically a skill, is curiosity. I think curiosity is a much undervalued element of writing. You want to learn about the world as you write about it. How things work, who people are, all these questions are, for me, the most exciting elements of writing fiction. I work in-house for a large company. And my clients cover a very large swathe of provisions and fields, as well as countries and cultures. The only way I can do my job and not get fired is if I have that same curiosity that I was given great freedom to pursue during my MFA years. That freedom really allowed me to make curiosity part of my everyday, part of who I now am. And it’s carried over to my work now as an attorney. For example, I’m an environmental lawyer. Before this job, I had very little interaction with environmental issues. Now, it’s something I dedicate crazy hours to with no scientific or technical background. But, curiosity carries me forward, and humility (a trait honed against the backdrop of being very average compared to other MFA students) keeps me from collapsing when I make my numerous mistakes.

5. What creative projects are you working on now? How do you find time to work on them?

I am actually working on a novel right now, and have been for a while. I used to pride myself on writing copiously as an undergrad and MFA student. None of it very good. But now, the process has been slowed considerably. My writing times are very early in the morning and very late at night. I have two active, crazy little ones, and so on my weekends, I try to dedicate as much time with them as I can. So, similar to law school when both of them were born, my free time, my writing time, is during their sleeping hours. My wife also writes, so it works out ok on the marriage end. But, I tend to write best when in a fever, when I cannot concentrate on anything else. So, that makes for some rough Friday and Saturday nights when I am awoken the next morning at 5 am by small hands smacking me across the face. I also have 2 short stories that I am returning to for some substantial edits.  

6. Could you go into your inspiration for what you’re working on now?
The novel is based very loosely on a tragedy that took place in what I consider my home town of Douglas, Georgia, many years ago. There are a litany of factual differences, so as to be its own story. I am trying to explore the two sides of it. The family who has lost a loved one and the people who were behind it. One of the blessings of studying the law, at least this is true of me, is that you gain a different perspective on the various actors involved in something criminal. That doesn’t mean the lines are blurred at all. God forbid there’d be chaos. But there is complexity. Complexity surrounding those who do something unspeakable and those who must then deal with it. I had the great pleasure during law school of contributing to an academic work dealing with juvenile criminals. That, mixed with some of the personal research I did both during my undergrad and MFA days, has hopefully prepared me to do the subject justice. If it hasn’t, then I might be the worst MFA alum in Notre Dame history.

7.  Given all your commitments do you still make time to read? If so, what are you reading? Would you recommend it? Why?
Reading is something you have to make time for. It’s not easy. Work, kids, marriage, volunteer groups, taking care of sickly parents, etc. You just have to make time for it. When I am writing, or trying to write, I tend not to read a lot of literature. The reason for that is I am easily inspired. I’m not so set in my ways that I know how to write the way I want no matter what masterpiece may be calling me otherwise. This is one of problems with being a “Cliff’s Notes” student in high school. I haven’t matured creatively compared to the very successful MFA students I got to work with. Every piece of fiction or poetry I read demands my emulation. For example, I read “The Sister’s Brothers” last year by Patrick DeWitt. Great book. Funny, simple, but still fascinating. Perfectly “good” reading for a confused lawyer. But, when I went to write, I suddenly started drafting out dialogue in his cool, deadpan way that wasn’t me writing, it was me imitating, miserably, Patrick DeWitt. I had the same experience with “The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao” by Junot Diaz. The book is so incredible, to me, and the character so worthy of your time, of your late hours, that I felt pressured to try to be like that even knowing I could not. So, when I am trying to write, I tend to read a lot of history and philosophy. I am right now going through the Oxford History of the United States series and I just finished Being Given by Jean Luc Marion (a personal hero). The one exception I have made recently, however, is Valerie Sayers’ The Powers. I made the exception for a few reasons. One was that she is one of the most special and important friends and mentors of my life, so I have to. Another reason is that I cannot write relationships the way she does. I cannot write female characters the way she does, though it would be a dream. However, when I read The Powers, which is wonderful by the way, and I sit down to imitate Valerie Sayers, what happens is not so much that I get derailed like with some other writers I read. Instead, what I end up doing is I write the female characters powerful and complex (or my attempt at such), and the relationships, familial, physical, etc., with the understanding that all of what I am writing is going to be changed dramatically. But, in my failing efforts, I will at the very least come to a greater understanding and appreciation of those female characters and those relationships through the exercise. I’ve read all of her works, so I know when I am drifting into Sayersisms in my own writing and can adjust when I have done a poor job. That’s the beauty of reading a great writer’s work when you’re comfortable with them and know them well enough to recognize when you aren’t being truthful to your voice, but you can still glean a great deal from that mistake. That’s why The Powers is so tremendous. That’s why she is, too.

Cheers,
Dev